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So i wintered over some kale that i started late last summer. It went along fine until spring hit, then it decided to bolt and flower on me. Now i have big beautiful yellow flowers and all, but what i really want is kale. I have been told that the leaves go bitter after it bolts.
Does anyone know if it will regenerate if i just cut it way back, or should i just collect seeds rip it out and start over?
Does anyone know if it will regenerate if i just cut it way back, or should i just collect seeds rip it out and start over?
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Seattle
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Re: Kale
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 3:08 PMThat's the normal Kale cycle. It just wants to reproduce. I think that if you cut it back it will just keep trying to flower. Once plants get the signal to flower, it's usually impossible to stop them. You should be starting new Kale soon for the coming winter. In the meantime, those flower buds make great rapini! Pick the mostly unopened flower shoots and cook quickly in salted water. They are very tasty and make a good early spring food. There is another plant that goes by various names like tree collards, tree kale and walking stick kale which never bolts. You grow it from cuttings (never produces seed) and it just keeps growing. It's an amazing plant. I always keep a couple around, but I have to admit that I generally prefer Kale for culinary purposes. neither one of them is very good during the summer months when they tend to be rank and more sulphury. When the weather turns cold they sweeten up. I'm glad you posted this question as I was completely forgetting to start some kale plants myself:) I think I like the Red Russian variety the best... anyone else have a favorite Kale variety? -
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Re: Kale
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 5:53 PMLet it go to seed and you'll have plenty for planting. -
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Re: Kale
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 5:52 AMHi,
Kale is a biennial.....I would let it go to seed.
I enjoy having volunteers from veggie plants in the garden.
If you collect some seeds and let some fall on the ground you will have some baby kale by fall.
Peace, Julie -
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Unsu...
Re: Kale
Mon, May 26, 2008 - 9:30 AMbeing a brassica, any other brassica ( and there are natives) can pollenate it. dont be surprised if your seeds arent quite what the seedbearer was.
I browse my brassicas vigorously, but ussually by this time of year I cant keep up,
russian red is my fav leafy brassica, but I also like loose cabbages for wraps and nothing compares to brusselsprouts sauteed with butter.
the florets of most brassicas are tasty, one of the best multivitamins you can take, and as long as you take the lead florets the plant is somewhat restrained- they try to start flowering in late feb at my place and I ussually keep them down until this time of year- with a green toothed grin.
I then cut back any varieties I dont want to propagate and leave them in the sun- the bees love them- but that way they dont reprorduce- and they mulch nicely. leave the stalk with 6-10 inches of leafy stem- they grow back vigourously. I have a few russian reds that are 4 years old and still going strong.
mulch in straw over their heads at the first sign of frost, they'll grow through the mulch the next late winter/spring. they do taste best in early spring, so sweet!
i also get scads of volunteers. the stuff LOVES the pnw/ cascade river valley where I live. Its even invaded a local clearcut!
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Re: Kale
Tue, May 27, 2008 - 10:04 AMJulie do you know if some types of kale are biennial and some perennial? my observation of red russian kale seems to behave like a biennial but I had heard perennial somewhere. It gave us incredible amounts of leaves for about 18 months now? It now has huge, large stalks, just keeps growing and giving leaves, but for the last few weeks it is getting the pretty yellow flowers. We have been chopping off the flowers and still eating the leaves, but they reappear soon.
Lacinato is great, it is a little harder to grow here than red russian, but once it is established it will produce the nicest flavored dark blueish oval leaves for a long time.
I also love gai lan (chinese kale) but mine is not budding, just leafing. The stalk is thinner and woddy, and the buds really little. I keep harvesting the buds and hoping a get larger stalks. I think my soil has lots of nitrogen but might be deficient in something else? -
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Re: Kale
Tue, May 27, 2008 - 11:00 AMI'm going on 8 years for some of my red russian kale! I cut some of it back to the ground when it gets to be beat up in the summer, and the rest I let go to seed. I've NEVER had any of that specific kale cross-pollinate with any other brassicas (I also grow broccoli, broccoli rapini, green cabbage, cauliflower, and many other unusual varieties) -- it always comes up true.
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Re: Kale
Tue, May 27, 2008 - 12:24 PMHi,
I haven't had any kale that produced without flowering for longer than a year.
I know there are many varieties. The kale I am growing right now is White Russian Kale.
This is an heirloom that I intend to keep going by collecting the seeds, so I won't plant any other kales.
I don't think kale will cross with other brassicas like broccoli, I would like to hear from others about this as I am
also growing broccoli quite near it. I planted late this year and am just seeing the seed leaves of this plant come up.
These are from seeds that are over three years old. Long-lived, eh?
I also like to grow laninato....I have had mixed success with it......the critters really loved it, but what remained was wonderful in soups and salads... It really looks like prehistoric trees after harvesting a bit.
Peace, Julie -
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Re: Kale
Tue, May 27, 2008 - 12:54 PMI have not tried white russian yet, but my red russian definitively took a year an a half before it decided to even think about flowering. I am also planting different brassicas close together, it turned out this was a mistake. I did not even think cross pollination, but the collards grow much faster and have really large leaves, so they shadow the lacinato and red russian. I had to go around the kale and thin the collards to give the kale room and light (I called it green garden ethnic cleansing LOL). My broccoli and cauliflower are not budding, so we just eat the leaves, they are good.
We also had collards and lacinato producing for over a year a few month ago, but this is before we knew they were perennial, so after the first aphid infestation we did uproot them, since we figured it is done, we got lots of greens out of them! little did we know we could get a lot more! Live and learn. Now I just make my mix of hot pepper/shampoo/vinegar diluted spray and go to war, it works on the aphids.
Chili, you had kale growing for 8 years (wow!) but you let it go to seed also? you mean different plants right? do you save some from going to seed and make it last longer? did your red russian also flower after 18 months?
I grew baby bok choi and arugula too, I am trying to get seeds from both of those. I did it successfully with parsley and cilantro (and re-planted) but this is easy. The bees really seem to like the cilantro flowers and they do look pretty. -
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Re: Kale
Tue, May 27, 2008 - 4:11 PMactually I have been growing predominantly red russian kale for 11 years-- some of the plants I just cut to the ground when they get to stretching out to flower, letting them re-sprout, and some I always let go to seed-- the sparrows love the seeds too and I like to watch them hang upside down from the seed pod tips. I don;t remember if I waited 18 months for them to first flower though....
I wasn't happy with growing the lacinato kale as it harbors lots of aphids in its deeply textured leaves, though I love that kale to juice - it rocks - but I'll not grow it again.
The white siberian kale I grew last year had little success -- it seems to be stunted all the time and does not produce well here so I am not planting it again - if it comes back from seed, so be it, but I'm not encouraging it.
I had some lovely sherbet orange cauliflower that I cut back to the ground after harvesting the heads, and every cool season, it produced more and more, sprouting back from the same rootstock and stems. granted, the resulting harvested heads were smaller than the first head, but I ate cauliflower from that one plant for over 4 years!
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Re: Kale
Tue, May 27, 2008 - 9:38 PMAll my kales planted in the late summer bolted in early winter/spring. I'll have to try cutting it back hard as some of you recommend and see if that will stave off bolting. This isn't the best Cole growing country and it can be challenging to keep them from stressing. What I referred to as the perennial non bolting tree kale, tree collard or walking stick kale looks more like a collard.
For what it's worth to anyone, The book Seed to Seed says the following
"Most kale and all collards will cross with all other members of the B oleracea, including cabbage, broccoli, brussels sprouts, cauliflower, collards and Kohlrabi. ... the only exceptions are the few kales including siberian Kale and Hanover Salad Kale which are B. napus and will cross instead with the rutabagas.... "
It goes on to say that names can be confusing, or unreliable and one shouldn't make too many assumptions about what is and isn't a B. napus. It also says to isolate by 1 mile or more. I've found this book very useful, but you can't beat personal experience like Chili's -
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Re: Kale
Wed, May 28, 2008 - 11:47 AMThanks for the reference for saving seeds.
I am happy to hear everyone's experience about growing kale.
I guess that all the brassicas are originally from the same plant so that makes sense.
I guess the thing to do since I don't have miles to plant these veggies is to harvest enough seed and
save seed from one Brassica each year.
peace, Julie -
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Re: Kale and seed saving
Wed, May 28, 2008 - 12:23 PMYou can isolate physically too, instead of by distance. Saving different things different years sounds like a possible solution if you didn't have too many varieties. If you don't have Seed to Seed it discusses the various options and is really worth owning as a reference. There seems to be a lot of good info on the net as well and no doubt that will continue to grow. I'm trying to save a few more seeds each year, but it takes up a fair amount of extra garden space and there's a lot to learn. It sure is satisfying though and obviously the direction to head in in terms of independence, locally adapted varieties and biodiversity. I think many of the brassicas can be grown from cuttings. I've grown broccoli from cuttings. -
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Re: Kale and seed saving
Wed, May 28, 2008 - 7:48 PMIs this it?
Seed to Seed: Seed Saving and Growing Techniques for Vegetable Gardeners
by Suzanne Ashworth and Kent Whealy -
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Re: Kale and seed saving
Fri, May 30, 2008 - 1:33 PMThat must be the updated version the one I have is just Seed to Seed by Suzanne Ashworth.
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Re: Kale and seed saving
Wed, June 18, 2008 - 2:43 PMHey all, thanks for your comments in regards to this thread!
I decided to just save the kale and let it go to seed. I have some pretty big bean pods on there right now, just waiting for them to turn brown before i harvest 'em. It does take up a bunch of valuable realestate! But considering a pack of seeds is $3-4 perhaps its worth the wait. :) -
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Unsu...
Re: Kale and seed saving
Wed, June 18, 2008 - 3:08 PMuntil they get fibrous even the seed pods of the red kale are delicious! great in salads, stir fry, etc.
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Re: Kale
Thu, May 29, 2008 - 8:22 AMI like the black kale (Nero di Toscana). Also, try adding nuts to your brussel sprouts with butter dish. Pecans are especially nice. -
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Re: Kale
Sun, June 1, 2008 - 9:47 AMI looked up the black kale.......it sure looks like dinosaur kale....is it the same thing? :<) -
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Re: Kale
Mon, June 2, 2008 - 9:08 AMWhat an informative thread!
I am looking forward to growing "tree kale" now.
("Cabbage Walking Stick," $3.29 for 10 seeds from Whatcom seeds.)
Thanks so much everybody! -
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Re: Kale
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 10:18 AM("Cabbage Walking Stick," $3.29 for 10 seeds from Whatcom seeds.)
Hmmm.... my tree collards have never flowered or showed any signs of it at all. I wonder if this is the same thing, or maybe they do flower under rare circumstances. I can't tell if it's the same as mine from the picture. I would offer to send out cuttings of mine to people, but I didn't like where they were so I started new ones and the others are hacked up and buried in the compost a month or so ago. Bad timing. The new ones are just getting started. I might have cuttings next year, and lots the year after that. They are definitely a very substantial and easy to grow food, if not my most favorite table fodder. I'm very interested in them as animal feed, maybe rabbits. Good luck with yours! -
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Re: Kale
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 7:05 PMSteve,
How would the tree collards be in a green smoothie?
This is my primary interest in the greens.
In a Vitamix, we blend Red Russian or Dino Kale,
a bannana, a big chunk of frozen durien, a thumb or 2 of grated fresh ginger,
fresh mint, frozen wheatgrass juice, 1/2 of an apple, maybe fresh coconut juice,
avocado and water.
Ever try the tree collards this way? -
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Re: Kale
Wed, July 2, 2008 - 8:12 PMI don't know about that, they are pretty sulphury very much like other members of the family. If you like kale and similar leaves that way, maybe the tree collards would work.
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Re: Kale
Wed, August 6, 2008 - 7:02 PMI was at a friends place last week and she had tree collards she grew from seed because one of hers that was very stressed flowered and seeded. The plants she got from the seed had quite a bit of variation. I got a cutting of one of them. My question is will the offspring be bolt resistant like the parent? One of hers was flowering, so I wonder. It also might've crossed with some other brassicas in the garden??? -
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Re: Kale
Thu, August 7, 2008 - 3:01 PMI cut down the kale that had bolted and its growing back rather nicely. Dont know if it will bolt right away or not, i'll keep ya'll posted!
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Re: Kale
Mon, June 2, 2008 - 10:08 AMJulie, your intuition is right.
Black kale=Lacinato=Tuscan (nero di toscana) =Dinosaur
All the same. Great stuff!
picture link for you:
fothergills.ca/
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Re: Kale
Wed, July 23, 2008 - 11:45 AMI have seeds for russian red kale if anyone wants any --
please PM me with your address and I'll send some off in the mail asap. -
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Re: Kale
Mon, June 22, 2009 - 11:58 PMWhat timing! pests and pest control crap (applied too thickly by b'friend) have my russian red kale looking kinda sad. I am going to try to save what I can ... but I am doing raised beds and have JUST the place! what is PM? oh! private message
I am
maps31@yahoo,com
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